Is this the end of the whole sorry affair?
News that Luis Suarez has been found guilty of racially abusing Patrice Evra and handed an eight match ban has been met with a mixture of disbelief and anger by many associated with Liverpool football club.
“We look forward to the publication of the commission’s judgment. We will study the detailed reasons of the commission once they become available, but reserve our right to appeal or take any other course of action we feel appropriate with regards to this situation.
Again no real revelations here and dare I say a fairly measured and considered statement of both expectation and possible intent by the club. Unfortunately that’s where the ‘considered’ aspect of the statement ends…
“We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play – including Evra’s own Manchester United team-mates and all the match officials – heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.
Now correct me if I’m wrong but hasn’t Suarez admitted that he called Evra ‘negrito’ and United’s captain has made the allegation that he found it offensive. So what the point of arguing about the conversation is, quite frankly baffles me, surely everyone agrees what was said, the difference of opinion is why it was said. Was it meant as a racial slur or merely a reference based on what is culturally acceptable where Suarez comes from. The fact no one else heard it is completely irrelevant.
“The club takes extremely seriously the fight against all forms of discrimination and has a long and successful track record in work relating to anti-racist activity and social inclusion. We remain committed to this ideal and equality for all, irrespective of a person’s background.
I’d argue this isn’t the case when as soon as one of your players is found guilty of racism, you immediately release a statement not only backing him but also criticising his accuser.
It is after the first altercation between Mr Bethell and Mr Evra that Mr Bethell is alleged to have shouted at Mr Evra “I’ll ******* have you, you ******* 12 immigrant” – an allegation which Mr Bethell has consistently and vehemently denied.
39. The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.
There is some confusion and inconsistency in their placing of the alleged racist insult. We should not have expected complete detailed accuracy and consistency in witnesses’ recollections of a fast-moving disorderly series of events. However, there are aspects of the evidence of Mr Phelan and Mr Hartis which raise serious questions about the reliability of their claims about the racist remark.
The later on in the report: Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day.
So that one goes out of the window- Evra never claimed to have heard any racist remarks nor did he accuse anyone of doing so. The fact that he admitted he didn’t hear any racist remarks was the reason it was dismissed, if Evra had lied and said he did hear them, he could have saved himself a ban or at least got Bethell punished, but he didn’t so he chose not to and rightly so.
As for the Finnan one. there’s a link here to the full story: EVRA/FINNAN but allow me to elucidate. Some deaf supporters watching on the television said they lip-read Finnan racially abusing Evra. Evra said he heard nothing and was ‘unaware of any racist abuse.’ Case closed.
“It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said: “I don’t think that Luis Suarez is racist.” The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.
Evra has admitted here that he does not believe Suarez is racist and Liverpool are now happy to quote a player only a paragraph earlier they noted: “certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.”
Is he credible when he says Suarez isn’t racist but not credible when he says he’s made a racist remark? How does it work? When is Evra allowed to be considered ‘credible’? Perhaps Liverpool football club could enlighten us all.
“Luis himself is of a mixed race family background as his grandfather was black. He has been personally involved since the 2010 World Cup in a charitable project which uses sport to encourage solidarity amongst people of different backgrounds with the central theme that the colour of a person’s skin does not matter; they can all play together as a team.
This is one of the more pointless parts of the statement as anyone knows that even a black person can be racist towards another black person. Having a black grandad doesn’t suddenly make you incapable of making a racist comment.
Calling a black person a ‘coconut’ is described as a racist term by the police yet it is used mainly as a slur from one black person to another or to another person in an ethnic minority. Here’s an example click HERE
Many black people -myself included- find the term n*gger abhorrent and would take offence if it was used towards us by even another black person. Other black people don’t mind it or even use it as a term of endearment so when it comes to ‘black on black’ insults -for want of a better description, it’s all depends on the individual and also the context.
From what we can assertain, Suarez called Evra a term, the United skipper found offensive and continued to do so on several occasions. That seems to be the point, not whether Suarez is one eighth black.
“He has played with black players and mixed with their families whilst with the Uruguay national side and was captain at Ajax Amsterdam of a team with a proud multi-cultural profile, many of whom became good friends.
The argument ‘Ive got black friends so how can I be racist’ is now seen as one of the more embarassing arguments you can put forward in defending yourself against a racial allegation. Here’s an example in The Thick of It click HERE around the 12.30 mark of how that argument is seen as a joke.
“It seems incredible to us that a player of mixed heritage should be accused and found guilty in the way he has based on the evidence presented. We do not recognise the way in which Luis Suarez has been characterised
A fairly reasonable argument and one I’m not going to discredit just because I’m a United fan, although I’ll again point to my previous comment of how a persons background doesn’t always prevent them from making a racist remark.
“It appears to us that the FA were determined to bring charges against Luis Suarez, even before interviewing him at the beginning of November. Nothing we have heard in the course of the hearing has changed our view that Luis Suarez is innocent of the charges brought against him and we will provide Luis with whatever support he now needs to clear his name.
If Liverpool thought the FA were determined to bring charges against Suarez before interviewing him, why not raise those concerns at the time? Liverpool would have been much more credible had they done so rather than after Suarez has been found guilty.
“We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult.”
Surely this is another example of Evra being honest, which negates the earlier ‘lack of credibility’ point. why admit what you said if even Suarez didn’t hear it? As for charging him, well when Evra initially made his accusation there were calls from the club for him to be charged if he Suarez was not found guilty, now it seems even though the Uruguayan has, they still want blood from Evra.
An example of the club’s stance during the investigation- via Kenny Daglish can he found HERE.
I know many Liverpool fans will be going ballistic and no doubt comment with insults aimed at both myself and Evra, while defending Suarez. All I’ll say is this, I read the statement and like many United fans was disappointed that even after he’s been found to be the victim of racial abuse, Patrice Evra is still being criticised, even by the club who’s player abused him and rather than rant and rave, I thought an examination and analysis of the statement was only right. If you don’t agree with my findings or arguments, or even if you do, I’d appreciate your thoughts.
The bottom line is Suarez referred to Evra’s skin colour during several confrontations. There is set rules on this conduct. Rules have clearly been broken. United have experience of this as United’s players have been punished for breaking other set rules. The best thing for Liverpool to do as a club is take it on the chin. Africa, Asia, America and the rest of Europe will get the news in summary. That summary will probably read along the lins of “Suarez banned for racism” – “Liverpool defend him”. Surely a poor reflection of the club in the bigger picture. If only 0.1% of the world have a view point that Liverpool is a racist club that’s more than yesterday.
as a liverpool fan, i’m gutted that we’ll miss our star player BUT racism MUST be stamped out! there can be NO defence! if there are “cultural differences” then perhaps clubs who buy foreign players should educate them on what is acceptable and what is NOT in OUR culture! it’s very hard to voice a personal opinion as all the facts were not made public but i think if luis IS guilty then IMO he got off lightly!
all i would ask of the FA and every right-thinking fan is consistancy! JT is another high-profile case and there ‘appears’ to be more damning evidence on tv and, not wanting to pre-judge, i hope the powers-that-be would dish out the same punishment or it might well validate a little of Lfc’s statement! but hey, you’ll hear no excuses or defence from this liverpool fan!
on the football side of things, this is gonna cost us a bloody fortune in January now everyone knows we’ll have to replace him! anybody need £35m?
Happy Christmas
@gurvir: Nah mate, what Luis Suarez is being accused of is slurring a racial remark at Evra. You need not to be a racist to say something racist. I have friends that say offensive things in front of me but outside our social circles, it no longer has the esoteric context of our group. Suarez must know in different countries there are different cultures and norms. What he does back home is not necessarily acceptable elsewhere.
Some of the comments are a disgrace. To think there’s people like ye still left in the world, god help us all.
Suarez has never denied using the word negrito toward Evra so did he really think that the FA were going to find him anyting other than guilty.
What has come out in the inquiry is that the FA would rather believe the testimony of Evra who by their own admission has been unreliable in their previous dealings with him. For unreliable read LIAR although political correctness means they cannot say that.
Clearly Suarez`s previous dsciplinary record was taken into account although none of it was in this country or with our FA ,whereas Evra who has previous with the FA was treated as holier than thou.
Personally I just wish some had stuck the nut on the despicible human being that is Patrice Evra as the ban would have been less and the result more enjoyable and cheered across the premier league and no doubt in his native country of France where he is also despised.
Conclusion Suarez was always gonna be guilty and Evra will always be a desipicable little toad who I hope will one day get in the wrong players face and really get sorted big time so he mends his ways.
Before you all jump on the bandwagon and accuse me of being a liverpool fan that could not be further from the truth as I am united red through and through but feel that Evra needs to be confronted as one day his behaviour will be very costly to united and it seems Sir Alex nowdays is more inclined to let his sort of attitude run rather than discipline it as he would have done in years gone by and he condones his behaiour by letting him wear the captains armband.
Yeh we believe you horrible little classless scouse cunt.
Liverpool fc – the club for neo-nazis
This is by the rivalry of the united and the Liverpool, which by the topic of the racism. The fanatics of the united, see this as a victory of the United on the Liverpool. I am black!
Im a liverpool fan but I totally agree. Some of our fans and our club have shamed me in the past 24 hours. The once great pride I felt of being a fan of LFC has died a little since we have dropped all morals and dignity in favor of blind faith. We have put ourselves out there to world to be seen as condoning racism which is shameful and ignorant.
Nice article anyway you manc twat. YNWA
Harris that is just the sort of reply that fuels hatred between us and liverpool if you wish to believe that I am a scouser that is down to you but I feel my points are valid and still feel able to stand in Old trafford and support united but wish to point out the drop in standards of behaviour of to which sir Alex would once have clamped down upon behind closed doors of course.
As to your reply with the language of the gutter I think that only goes to prove the kind of class you are if such that is all your vocabulary can stretch to as an insult.
This statement “Liverpool fc – the club for neo-nazis” is bordering on the fanatical if their fans response on this blog is anything to go by as most agreed to some form of punishment, I merely point out that Patrice Evra is far from whiter than white when it comes to how he behaves and represents our great club and that he needs also to be pulled into line or do you feel our players are above the laws of fair play and good behaviour as if so it is understandable why so many clubs fans have the attitude of one rule for united and one for everyone else.
As regards this accusation “Yeh we believe you horrible little classless scouse cunt”
I am 6ft 5in so not little :-
Born in Manchester :- so not scouse
Classless :- well that is a matter of opinion
And finally a cunt:- thought that was slang for a womans genitalia :- last time I checked in the mirror I was not as you labelled me so I can only guess that you have a problem with identifying the said item if so you may have trouble with women when you reach puberty.
In closing grow up Harris and get real with your comments as what you say can have an effect on fan relations which are not great at the best of times although thankfully most of the fans posting on here seem to be able to rise above such obscene generalisations of liverpool people and fans.
Justin, you nailed it in every way. I also wonder if LFC feel it was impossible for Hitler to be anti-Semetic since by their logic you cannot be racist if you have a grandfather of another ethnicty.
Liverpool both FC & people are awful whingers. Always hardone by.